So the news just did a story explaining that having sex caused you to commit suicide, especially if you were a girl. so according to the news, 14% of sexually active teenaged have attempted suicide as compared to only 5% of non-active girls. Furthermore, they state that 25% of sexually active girls show signs of depression as compared to only 8% of all girls. They didn’t say what the stats were for boys at all, and they didn’t explain any reason they think there is a correlation at all. This is something else that I might be inspired to write a hostility essay about, but I can’t think of anything I might want to say about it. So I’m curious as to whether anyone else buys into this at all or not. Does it makes sense or is it a load of crap? Why or why not?
EDIT: Several people have asked if the news story implied causation or just correlation. They implied causation. Their thesis being that teenaged girls with rampant hormones take sex too seriously. So for instance: a 15-year-old girl may date a boy and sleep with him. Then when they break up, she’ll be so distraught that she’ll try to kill herself.
Correlation != Caustation
If the first people who hand their exams in do well that does not mean that giving everyone else less time will increase their scores.
Re: Correlation != Caustation
ummm… huh? I don’t disagree, but I don’t get the relevance… and who is this?
Re: Correlation != Caustation
the point is that just because two events are correlated doesn’t mean you know which causes which, or if there is even a causal relation.
Re: Correlation != Caustation
yeah, I understood the subject, just not the example in the comment… reading it closer, I think I get it now though… still don’t know who it was…
As has been repeatedly pointed out, correlation does not imply causation, but there’s only a problem if they’re actually reporting, as you said, that “having sex causes you to commit suicide.” Obviously, that would be a ridiculous claim to make from such statistics (what were the ages of the girls, btw? and/or, do you have a link to the article?).
The correlation makes plenty of sense (heh, I just typed “sex” there first) though, I think, but it’s hard to say whether having sex early and committing suicide are both symptoms of low self esteem, or whether having sex early tends to induce/magnify low self-esteem and thereby lead to depression/suicide. So my theory involvels low self-esteem, either as mediator, or shared cause. Of course, others might have other theories to explain the correlation, and I bet the stats would be really different among girls of the same ages but in different countries/cultures. But obviously no theories like these (except the cross-cultural one) can be verified by statistics like the ones you/they report either.
they did say there was causation (see edit)… and yeah, I agree with the stuff you said, but the news didn’t mention any of this…
I think that it would be a mistake to infer causality from that correlation (if the correlation even exists).
A lot of girls who have sex young do so because there is lots of fucked up shit in their lives, and that is part of how they express the fucked-upedness. And people with lots of fucked up shit in their lives tend to commit suicide more often than people who have pretty sweet lives.
right, like I said to Gina (above), I agree but what really got me is that they said it was more a problem in girls than in boys (but gave no evidence to back that up), and they very specific in saying that the sex (or rather the associated feelings) are what caused the suicidal depression.
From your original entry, you said they didn’t mention stats for boys. It’s probably not because they think boys are not affected, but because the study did not study boys and thus they don’t have data to report.
well… they did specifically say that it was much more prevalent in girls than in boys, but they never said the boy stats… so i assume they must have them… unless they are just guessing…
But doesn’t having sex INCREASE self-esteem in teenaged boys?
hmmm… maybe… but numbers, I need numbers!!!
actually, they implied that boys had the same problem but not quite as bad…
Maybe all the queer Shakespeare sonnets I have been reading are influencing me, but did this study talk specifically about teenaged girls having sex with teenaged boys or just sex? Because there are all kinds of sex teenaged girls can be having, including but not limited to lesbianism and incest, the latter being one of those “fucked up things” mentioned that may make people more likely to commit suicide. Not that fucked up things don’t happen to teenage boys as well.
well, their specific examples that they cited were teenaged girls who become suicidal after they get dumped by the boys who took their virginity… it was a pretty short story and they didn’t go into much more than that. They interviewed one girl who talked about her depression after and how a friend of hers had to talk her out of killing herself after her boyfriend dumped her, then they gave a bunch of numbers and basically said make sure your kids aren’t having sex too young, because they might get their hearts broken and kill themselves. It was just a little “hey stay at home moms who are watching the noon news, here’s a good tip for better parenting” message, but it got me thinking…
Ok, then it’s not the sex that’s inducing the suicide. It’s actually the fault of the Moral Majority. You see they are preaching that abstinence is the only good birth control. So, if you lose your virginity you are obviously not abstinent and therefore not worthy of living. Doomed to an eternal life of Hell. It’s a wonder that any young girl can stand up under all that pressure! Jeez, I’ve got to go kill myself…and I’m not even a teen. 🙁 Damn that Bush & his Cronies!
Hmmm. Sex is bad. Then why isn’t Herr Bush doing something about all these penis-enlarging emails in my inbox?
Here! Here! I agree 100%. Afterall, why would I want to read emails about men who need to enlarge their penises? They could at least send messages about men that are well endowed! Sheeeeesh
you don’t get those? I do all the time… well, not quite as often as I get mail about teenaged sluts who like to have sex with barnyard animals… but anyway, I can forward them to you if you want…
hmmm… maybe that’s the key… Maybe teenaged girls would kills themselves a lot less if once their boyfriends dumped them, they found a nice pig or bull to ummm… satisfy their needs…
Sorry… just thinking outside the box here….
What we need is a database that tells us who answered those emails and bought the products. How else can we know if they really work or not?
*gasp* you had sex?!?!?!? I’m shocked, Mother…
uhhhhh…only 3 times
damn… I guess that ruins my theory on my being the immaculate second coming…
Umm, they think there’s a correlation because they read a study with statistics that show a correlation?
Well, unless you’re watching Fox News, in which case they probably just made up the whole thing because the Christian Coalition told them to.
yeah, I understand why they said there was a correlation… I was more inquiring about people’s views on their theories of the cause… maybe I should have worded that better…
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No, it was NBC news…
My stats prof always said “No causation without manipulation”, so to show the relationship was causal, we’d have to get a set of girls, have Johnny Depp seduce half of them, break up with half of those he seduced, and see which group kills themselves. (no wise cracks about Johnny Depp, please.)
asking Mav not to crack wise is like asking the sun not to shine…
who me?
except this is Pittsburgh, so that’s a bad simile. it’s like… asking the earth to stop turning.
well then why even mention Depp? I mean, he’d pollute the survey. Girls might just as well kill themselves because they thought they were so horrid that they turned him gay. Much better to have them seduced by Grieco.
Yeah, nobody would care if Grieco turned gay.
untrue… gay men everywhere would rejoice, all while straight women commited ritual suicide all across the world… its good that this hasn’t happened. It might doom the species…
Uh…
Who’s Grieco?
Re: Uh…
ARRRRRGHHHHHH!!!!!
actually, he’s like Depp, but cooler. He was also in 21 Jumpstreet.
Re: Uh…
Exactly! Everyone knows who Depp is. Grieco who? yeahh..
He was another one of the hunkie guys from 21 Jump Street.
http://us.imdb.com/Name?Grieco,+Richard
Re: Uh…
just because everyone knows who he is, that doesn’t mean he’s hot, Dana… unless of course, you love Hitler
Re: Uh…
Who’s Hitler?
And I don’t know if Usenet Rule #3 will work on liveJournal to kill the discussion.
Re: Uh…
Yeah, I don’t think it does either. Actually, I wasn’t trying to kill the discussion, I was referencing the Hitler-Loving Queer bit from the Daily Show.