This is mostly for the vegetarians who read this, but really, anyone who has input, I’d love to hear it.
How much would someone have to pay you to make you eat meat?
I saw an episode of Survivor once, where they were doing the obligatory nasty food challenge. The contestants had to spin the wheel and eat whatever it landed on, and some of the stuff was like bugs and live worms and whatnot, and then there was some stuff like an apple and a burger if you got lucky.
Anyway, there was this one girl who said she was a vegan and it landed on a fish or something, and she refused to eat it, and the other contestants were all “I had to eat a worm, and this bitch is mad about having to eat a fish? What the hell?” And I was at home watching and thinking, “Ummmm… there’s a million dollars on the line, what are you fucking nuts?”
Then, another time, I saw an episode of Fear Factor, where there was a girl who was allergic to milk (like I am), and they had a challenge where you had to suck milk directly out of the cow and spit it into a glass and fill it up. The girl did it without hesitation, and the the host asked her “but, you’re allergic, why would you do that?” and she pointed out there was $50,000 on the line and fuck getting sick. I was like “hell yeah.”
So anyway, would you suspend your ethical (or allergic) diet for a guaranteed payoff? What about for a chance at one? How much would it have to be in either case?
hmm. I don’t have any ethical concerns, but my allergy – shellfish – would kill me, so no dice there. if it just made me ill? hell yeah!
see, I don’t think drinking milk would kill me outright. It makes me have ashtma attacks, so I could probably do it for a bit. And really, $50,000. Is my life even worth that. 🙂
How much are you offering?
dude… I’m picking up your girlfriend at the bus station. I demand that you chow down on a burger right now.
Portabella or spicy black bean?
how about a nice blend of bald eagle, tasmanian tiger and blue whale. And maybe a side of deep fried baby seal.
Let the eagle soar, man, let the eagle soar! Why do you hate America?
I do not… I love America! there’s nothing so American as raping the land, eating half and animal and throwing the other half away while our poor people starve to death. You’re the one who hates freedom you hitler loving
queer vegetarian.Oh, easily.
…but I don’t believe it is unethical to kill and eat animals. I have many reasons for being a vegetarian, but the primary one is that I don’t want to support the mass-market meat industry and all its attendant cruelty, environmental impact, health problems, etc. Eating one meal of meat, even if it was purchased from “Factory Farms R Us – overusing antibiotics since 1958”, isn’t going to affect anything overly much. I’m sure my body would be pretty unhappy about it, because I haven’t eaten meat in years, but I could deal.
I am as strict with myself as I am because it’s easier psychologically to eat no meat than to eat very little meat (slippery slope). Also, it makes more of a point…for example, vegetarians have an impact on what restaurants will serve because a vegetarian won’t walk into a restaurant that has no vegetarian options. An occasional meat eater can walk into any restaurant because, if there are no veggie options or even if the veggie options aren’t any good, they can still find something to eat….so their impact on the bottom line is much less.
Let’s see….I don’t think $100 would be enough….it’s not worth breaking a good track record….but I’d probably do it for less than $1000. Maybe $500?
For a chance at money…well…I’d just view it statistically. A 50% chance of winning $1000….a 1% chance of winning $50,000, etc.
And it depends on how much I’m being asked to eat…a bite would be cheaper than a whole worm-sandwich, and it’d take a lot of money to for me to be a carnivore for a day.
However, in defense of the vegan – vegans are different – way different. To put it fairly simply, most vegans consider animals to be people too. They equate killing an animal with murder, and keeping animals for their products (milk, eggs, honey, etc.) as slavery. Would you eat human meat for money? Would you drink human milk if it came from women locked up in giant factory farms hooked up to milking machines and forced to lactate with hormones and drugs and whose children are locked in tiny pens like dog crates so their meat stays tender so it can be sold as a delicacy? How much money would that take?
So I’m not surprised a vegan wouldn’t eat animal even for a chance to win a lot of money.
Re: Oh, easily.
for the right price I absolutely would eat human flesh. Anyway, to complicate your story a bit, the girl lost that particular turn because she was unable to get herself to eat the fish. On the next round she did make herself eat a bug though. So really, its not so cut and dry as “I can’t eat any animal at any cost.”
As for your statistics Fear Factor is (usually) 8 people trying for $50,000, so well within your odds.
Survivor on the other hand is 16 people going for $1million, but what’s more, there are consolation prizes along the way. IIRC, the runner up gets $100K. And even the first person eliminated gets $2500, for their threedays of island hardship. Everyone else is somewhere inbetween, so yeah, its probably well within your cut-off.
Re: Oh, easily.
(Disclaimer: leather-jacket-wearing non-vegan speaking)
Yeah, but it can’t be just “random dead person” meat. For the ethical parallel to be exact, it has to be a person who was murdered in cold blood for the sole purpose of being eaten by you. So, if you stick to your guns, you’ve just said you will be the cause of the murder of an innocent person “for the right price.”
As for bugs, presumably she doesn’t consider them people. That’s no more inconsistent than not considering bacteria or fruit people… you have to draw the line somewhere.
Re: Oh, easily.
hmmm… Perhaps. I don’t remember it if was a live fish or not. The bug was definitely living.
Re: Oh, easily.
It doesn’t matter, ethically. She doesn’t have to kill the fish herself, she merely has to be the cause of its murder, which she refuses to be.
Re: Oh, easily.
ah ok… and yet she has no qualms about bugs… ok, I don’t know that I buy the argument really, but I will at least acknowledge its consistency.
Human flesh, huh?
Just where are you going to get this human flesh? Let’s specify human flesh taken against the will of the donor. Still want to eat it?
I’m not squeamish about meat…when I ate meat, I ate raw fish, shredded raw jellyfish, ostrich meat, etc. I really miss sushi and would love to try sea urchin. So human flesh, sure, if you can somehow acquire it without murder or torture. And if it were guaranteed disease-free.
Re: Human flesh, huh?
ya know… I know it sounds weird. But if I’m on a gameshow for a million dollars, and its being broadcast by CBS across the world, it would likely never occur to me to even wonder the circumstances of where the human meat came from. It’s TV. I trust TV. It used to be my baby sitter.
Re: Human flesh, huh?
No, you couldn’t pay me to eat human flesh. I’m certainly not squeamish about it in any way; I just have a Nature argument. I firmly believe it is a violation of genetic code for any species to eat itself. At the very basic level, all species exist to survive and propigate their own kind. Eating your own kind hinders the survival of the species…
Moreover, if what they say about human flesh being addictive to humans is true, then even one taste could result in all sorts of antisocial behavior…
Now, most other foods are fair game. I eat red meat — cooked or almost raw, veggies, sushi, what have you. I like to try new things, and seem to like 90% of the things I’ve tasted. Bugs? Well I guess that if I ate dirt for 50 cents on a dare when I was 5 years old, then for a million dollars as an adult I’d probably eat anything BUT human flesh.
Re: Human flesh, huh?
interesting take. To be fair, I don’t know what it would take to get me to eat human flesh. Its certainly the most out there of all the suggestions that have come of this conversation.
Anyway, all of your points were well stated. But 50 cents? I think you have undercut everyone else’s bids so far. 🙂
Re: Human flesh, huh?
*laughs at self* Yep, that was me! Man, when you’re 5, 50 cents sounds like so much… I mean, that’s 10 Bazooka gums!
Re: Human flesh, huh?
BTW, I forgot to address the food allergy point… Dairy? I’d be sick for days, but I’d deal if I made more from the dare than from the workdays I’d miss. Same for the fried or spicey foods — with the exception of those superhot pepper seeds which would probably make my ulcered stomach bleed and put me in the hospital ICU. Anything with Penicillan? No. It’d kill me, and then I wouldn’t be around to enjoy the cash.
Re: Human flesh, huh?
yeah, dying and not being able to enjoy the cash wouldd certainly put a hamper on the whole thing.
What is the source of your dairy allergy? Lactose intolerance or anaphylactic like mine? Or something else?
Re: Human flesh, huh?
It’s both lactose intolerance and a complete inability to digest milk protein due to scarring of the intestinal lining. So basically, the lactose makes me sick while the protein becomes a blockage. Imagine if you had diarrhea and someone shoved a cork up your ass…
Re: Oh, easily.
One of my vegan friends has a food rule of “nothing with a face.” If I remember correctly, he is OK with shrimp, because (by his considerations) they are too stupid to live or something like that. He’s fun to joke around with. 🙂
Re: Oh, easily.
so do you expect he’d decide that a cow suddenly deserved it if there was $1million on the line?
It would take a lot of money for me. Not only do I think it’s unethical, but it would also make me very sick.
How much money is a lot? I know… its a vague question and a hard one to answer when its theoretical… sort of like “would you sleep with Robert Redford for $1million.” But still…
also, why would it make you sick? You mean psychologically because you think its gross, or physically because you haven’t eaten meat in a long time? Or an allergy or something else?
Uh I guess at the very least $10,000. It’d make me sick since I haven’t eaten meat in over 11 years.
getting sick: ok, that makes sense.
dollar amount: Ok, maybe it wasn’t as hard a theoretical question as I thought. You worked it out inside of 2 minutes. 🙂
The only food I refuse to eat on ethical grounds is veal, but if someone came over to my house, plunked down a plate of osso bucco, and said I could have $50K if I ate it– well, I would eat it. I’d like to say that I would take part of that $50K and donate it to an animal rescue or conservation group but regardless, the veal would be eaten. My floor price for veal consumption isn’t all that high– probably around $1000– but I think the price would go up based on how public the event was. When I was thinking about this question I realized there was something I found troublesome about TV shows that glorify having people violate their ethics, so I think I would feel differently about eating veal in the privacy of my house versus eating veal on national TV.
The allergy question is fairly easy. So far as I know I am only severely allergic to one food– scallops– and while I haven’t eaten them in years I assume that the allergic reaction hasn’t gotten any worse, so they would probably make me throw up but wouldn’t kill me. I’d take a payoff (again, the floor is probably around $1K) in exchange for a day of gastrointestinal upset. I think a probabilistic payoff would have to have p(win) >= .25 or so, even for a fairly large prize. Nausea is unpleasant, and I don’t think I’d put myself through it if I was likely not to get anything out of it.
ok, that argument I actually find quite sensible. The not wanting to be seen violating your principals thing. I don’t know why it makes more sense to me than the just not willing to do it argument, but what can I say? I’m funny that way. I also appreciate that you acknowledge that there is still a payoff where you’re willing to do it.
If someone offered me $50K to eat a pork chop, my father would rise from the grave and slap me if I refused.
Yep, ol’ Jebediah al Khafiz understood that there are times when the lord wants you to make exceptions. Good to know that he was willing to beat that understanding into you.
Nah, he never laid a hand on me, but I’d imagine that rising from the grave just because I did something colossally stupid would make him a bit cranky….
Well, that explains a lot… “spare the rod, spoil the child,” as ol’ Jebediah Maverick used to say.
Hot damn! You mean you’d pay me to eat meat? This sounds like an excellent opportunity. I think I’ll declare myself a vegan this very minute so I can start cashing in.
The only meat I don’t eat right now is pork. Well, pork and meats that are hard to come by, like human flesh, worms, and so forth. I’d eat bacon or souvlaki for $5. Other pork would probably cost more. Like at least $100.
ummm, no I won’t… but maybe if you say that on your application to fear factor, you might have a shot.
I don’t think I have any real ethical food aversions. In order for me to not eat something for ethical reasons, it would probably have to be something endangered or human. I don’t think I’d ever be able to eat people without going insane from guilt. So I don’t think I’d eat human for any reason.
Endangered species is another story, though. While I would be ethically opposed to eating something endangered, I probably would if the price was right and I didn’t have to worry about any legal consequences. I don’t know how much it would have to be, but it would have to be a lot. A “you could retire early and comfortably right now if you eat this” amount.
hmm… what about the famous survivor of a plane crash thing. Could you resort to cannibalism as the only means of survival in the lack of other food?
Hah! Those people lack both survival skills and creativity… “No other food”…
hehehe… yep, clearly they should have eaten the plane. 😉
At least they’d get their iron… *wink*
I think in the event that I had no other food choices, I would resort to cannibalism, because self-preservation would override my ethical concerns. I think I’d still likely go insane from guilt later, but self-preservation is all about “eat now, ask questions later”.
I think that was basically how the guys who did it said they dealt with it.
Probably about $100. I’ve been vegetarian my whole life, and I now make an exception for seafood (especially sushi) when I’ve been drinking, but I find meat pretty disgusting. I think eating a worm or eating a piece of beef would probably be about equally gross to me. I don’t have any ethical issues with either.
wow… compared to the other vegetarians who answered, you’re goign pretty cheap.
Well, I think most of them have at least some ethical issue with it. For me, that’s totally irrelevant—it’s just an issue of taste.
I should point out, though, that unless I’m allowed to 1) have some alcohol before eating it or 2) vomit immediately afterward, preferably both, there would be a low probability of my succeeding.
there’s no prior alcohol on either show (frequently on survivor you might win a bunch of beer or wine or something from a food challenge, though). I think vomiting ends the challenge, so if its “who can eat the most bugs” or something, when you throw up you’re done. But you’re certaily allowed to do so after the challenge is over, and on Fear Factor, people frequently do.
I wandered in from a mutual friend’s journal…
…and have been vegetarian for almost twenty-four years. I just wouldn’t do it, except if the dead cow or whatever appeared bfore me in a buddhaform and say, “listen, my dear, I’m already dead, and you could do a lot of good with this money, and no one is trying to manipulate you’. I was stuck on top of a mountain once with a bitchy female and a nice guy, and the chick put meat on akll the remaining food, just to try to control me and force me to eat it, and I did without food for four frigging days just to make it clear that I can’t be forced by jerks. If someone said, ‘oh, my human brother died, and if you have a brother burger I’ll give you four million dollars and not make a big deal out of it, and I don’t mind if you do it or not’, then I might just do it if appropriate. *shrug* I’m buddhist, so every situation had its proper, or appropriate, own energy…
Re: I wandered in from a mutual friend’s journal…
ok, I don’t follow… you said you couldn’t then you said you could…
Re: I wandered in from a mutual friend’s journal…
It’s the principles part. If someone says something like, ‘ha, I bet I can buy you, bitch, and prove you’ll sell out’, then they can wait forever and I won’t do it. If the situation is more like no one is trying to buy me or force me or coerce me, but there might be genuine benefit to be gained by it, then that is a different scenario. Do you get the difference? Like taking a job, or having sex, or getting drunk, or moving across the country because you want to versus because someone is forcing you to…
Re: I wandered in from a mutual friend’s journal…
gotcha… so in the case where I was talking about a gameshow then, is that a yes or a no? I mean, I would assume a no at first, since its a bet, but then if you didn’t want to do weird stuff, you’d not be on the show in the first place. And really, its big also big money we’re talking here. $50,000? $1,000,000? So is that a someone forcing you situation?
Re: I wandered in from a mutual friend’s journal…
I think a ton of people watching you to see if you will go against your principles for money could be termed pressure, so…nope. If they said forty million zillion dollars, then maybe it’d be foolish to not eat a piece of something already dead as long as it wasn’t killed for that purpose, but if they said ‘here kill this bug or cow’, then no f*cking way ever…
Re: I wandered in from a mutual friend’s journal…
gotcha… thanx.