8-20-06
Originally uploaded by chrismaverick.
So back on Sunday, I went to watch a wrestling PPV at Hooters with suicideking, jakegarrett, bobbyjaggers, devindevine, Chuck Roberts and CJ Sensation. beststephi of course didn’t go, because it was a wrestling thing and a Hooters thing and she hates both. But that brings up something I have been thinking about. You see, Steph admits that she’s never been to Hooters. She has no idea what its like. She just seems to have this vague understanding that the environment is somehow sexist and inappropriate. Clearly if you look at the picture to the right, you can see that nothing could be farther from the truth. 🙂
Really though, it always surprises me how many women claim that sort of thing about Hooters or strip clubs or men’s magazines or whatever without having actually been there. Ok, granted, its pretty obvious that there is kind of a sexy-inspired theme to Hooters, but sexist? Hardly. More campy and tacky (in a fun way) than anything else.
What’s wrong with having a fun sexist kind of place anyway. Yes, if you go to a strip club, you are going there to objectify women. But its totally consensual. That’s the point. Its the place where such behavior is acceptable. And I wouldn’t call it sexist, because women can go too. But objectifying certainly.
I’ve been asked before how I would feel if there were a male version of the Hooters restaurant called “Cocks” or something like that and wouldn’t I be offended and not want to go. Honestly, if such a thing existed, I think I’d have to show up some time.
Now male strip clubs. That’s just wrong! The travesty! Uh, or something…. Oh wait, horny chicks will shove money down my underwear? On second thought….
So where do other people stand on Hooters? Both male and female. Are you offended by it? Ever been to one? What about strip clubs? What about male versions of either establishment?
Also, starting up my fantasy football league again very soon. Is anyone interested?
I have been to Hooters (twice) and I did find it offensive, primarily because the chicks all wore super shiny supporthose, but also because I thought their food was abysmal.
I will fantasy football.
oops, that was me.
well, like I said… its not so much sexist as tacky. That’s actually kinda the point. It used to talk about it on the menu.
I find the food ok. Not great. Not bad. Though this time I only had beer since I had already had BBQ for dinner.
Honestly, I find the excessive amount of makeup worn by some of the waitresses more offensive than their hot pants. The place is amusing enough. I’ve pretty much created a tradition of gathering my single friends and going there for Valentines Day (I’ve probably done this 5 or 6 times by now), so it’s near and dear to my heart for that reason.
well, my point has always been that its not really about being sexy. Its about being tacky. Ok, its about being sexy but in a tacky way. They didn’t pick the color bright orange on accident. So the excessive makeup kind of fits right in.
Your valentines day tradition is amusing. If I were single, it’d be the kind of thing that I might want to join in on.
I was vaguely bored by it. And the food was nothing to write home about.
I think the food is ok. Not the best I’ve ever had, but on par with TGI Fridays or Damons and what not.
Unrelated to Hooters, but speaking of wresting PPV’s, do you (or anyone you know) want a pile of VHS recordings of WWF PPV’s from 1998-2001? I have about 40 tapes that I found in the back of my closet. I no longer own a VHS player, so they are useless to me. You’re welcome to them free if you want them.
sold! for the great price of free!
Great, I’d rather them go to someone who might watch them instead of just tossing them. There’s a bunch of great matches in there too. Mick Foley vs HHH in the Hell in a Cell match from whatever PPV it was in Pittsburgh around that time period. Mick gets thrown off the top of the cell onto the announcer’s table. Ouch.
I’ll try to remember to tell Connie to give them to you when she sees you for the writing thing next month.
coolness… thanx
On Hooters & Stripclubs
I’m of the opinion that Hooters et al are actually exploitive of men more than anything else. I mean, show a guy some boobies and he’ll pretty much do anything you want. If that’s not exploitation, I don’t know what is.
Back in my college days, when my fraternity bros dragged me along to a strip club, I usually ended up real depressed cause either A) I wanted my own, real girlfriend, or 2) I missed my own, real, girlfriend.
Re: On Hooters & Stripclubs
yeah, I think that’s the main reason it isn’t really exploitive. Its a business that is selling an image. It’s no more exploitive of the girls than Hard Rock or Planet Hollywood is exploitive of the celebrities.
Despite what one might father the way I write and talk here, I’m not actually much of a strip club fan. If naked women are dancing around for my benefit, I like to be able to touch them.
TBH, I hate hooters. I went there for the PPV. The food is awful and the waitresses are , in my experience, well on there way to having the general anger at the world that most strippers have. If they could find some hot, NON-bitchy women to objectify, that would be cool.
I think developing a nice bitter general anger towards the world is an important part of growing up. But then I’m kinda a cynic.
Never been to Hooters, and not really interested in going. I’ve been to a couple strip clubs, and they can be fun, but more for the social aspect than the sex aspect. I went to one as part of a bachelor party and it was a total hoot (got my own lapdance, too); I went once with a couple shy SOs who weren’t so into it (and the girls were less personable) and it was pretty boring.
If I want skin and sex and objectivism, I have other, safer, much better places where I can get it.
hahaha, objectivism.
is that what you meant to say?
objectivism, objectification…. eh, close enough.
well, I’m not really saying that everyone should HAVE to go to Hooters. Like I said, I’m not actually a “fan” really. What I was more wondering about is people who disdain it as sexist without having been there, since really its kind of tame and well within the bounds of TV-PG. Now, that said, I personally wouldn’t have much of a problem with an actual sexiness themed restaurant (more like strip clubs) but I just don’t think Hooters fits there.
Now again, you have a fine point with the sex and “objectivism” 🙂 and I kind of agree. But there’s a difference between enjoying sexiness while you’re eating and getting your freak on. Like when I’m in Vegas, I’m not going to the casino because I’m horny, but that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the cocktail the waitresses while I’m there.
I have been to Hooters. I didn’t find it particularly offensive. Food is overpriced, but that’s what I expect in any sort of theme restaurant like that.
yep.
Ive been to Hooters once or twice, but dont care for the food. If your spending the money to eat, Id rather have good food and good atmosphere and not worry so much about who was serving.
I have no comments on Strip Clubs on the grounds that I may incriminate myself.
that’s fair. Not liking the food is a fine reason to not go, I think. But claiming that you just can’t go because its sexist seems… I dunno… uninformed.
I agree with that 100%. If the food is good, and the atmosphere and service are acceptable, I dont care who the server is. Hell nude guys with cock rings would work, as long as the plates are hot and they keep bringing the drinks. And the bread, thats the most important thing…
well have I got a place for you!!!
I’ve never been to Hooters, the food doesn’t sound interesting to me.
I have seen both male and female strippers, and in both cases it wassn’t so much offensive or titillating as just artificial and strange. I believe I likened the males to hairless chihuahas (albeit large, buffed, and well-hung chihuahuas).
The female strippers seemed equally artificial, and it’s an exploitative situation but I think the exploitation goes both ways. In terms of body shape it was clear they were catering to lowest-common-denominator desires of straight men– skinny, big breasts, long hair, lots of makeup. So no cute, plump, round-assed blondes there for me :p
It’s a pretty expensive experience, and all for a participating in very contrived interactions. Woman wiggles her rear at you, hand her a dollar. It was quite clear there was no actual /desire/ going on, just a very artificial mimicry of it– quite reasonable, I guess, since this is a place of business.
Ultimately it was all pretty boring, and I guess that’s a big part of why I don’t view porn, strip clubs, and the like as a significant threat to people’s real-world relationships. Sure, my girlfriend doesn’t look like a stripper (and I wouldn’t want her to anyway), but I get to, you know, actually touch her and have sex with her and stuff, and know she feels the same kind of desire for me.
You were at the wrong strip club. I’ve been to lots of them, and while yes, obviously, they’re going to mostly cater to the “lowest common denominator” since they’re a business and they want to make money, its always been my experience that there’s usually something of a variety. Meaning, sure, you’ll have a lot of california blondes, since that’s the bets way to make the most money, but generally there’s also a bunch of brunettes, red heads, african americans, tattoo’d punks, full figured girls, etc. since they know that the men (and women) in attendance are going to have varied tastes.
And yes, as I pointed out in other comments, I much prefer “the real thing.” But that doesn’t mean that the simulation can’t be fun. Kinda the same way I much prefer saving the world to watching a movie, but movies about saving the world are kinda fun too.
That reminds me… I need to go save the world. Its been a while.
Exploitation
At first glance, It seems to me that what Hooters delivers is not very different from any other sports bar that hires waitresses or waiters based on their appearance. An attractive wait staff can be a selling point for repeat business, so can an effective and capable wait staff (they aren’t mutually exclusive). Physical attractiveness is a commodity in hospitality(ask anyone in show business), but in my experience Hooters doesn’t consistently offer even that. All it offers is a guarantee that your wait staff will be female, she’ll be wearing a wonderbra, the campy uniform and her shirt will be very tight. Whether you’re attractive or a friendly and attentive server is second to the fact that you have to be willing to exhibit your body. I think it becomes exploitation when a person will do something they would not ordinarily be comfortable with and the propietor profits. Some people are very comfortable with exhibitionism and sexually overt indulgences like wearing arousing clothing, which means Hooters is not categorically a house of exploitation, but merely the staging ground for the loosening of some shy girls’ standards with the potential for widespread abuse (Hooters videotape scandal). BTW, the wings are skimpy, fatty and bland, the beer selection is weak and watery and although the girls were plenty friendly the service was slow.
As for sexist exploitation that swings the other way look no further than professional sports. I recently stopped by Steelers training camp with a female friend who told me she had very little interest in the mechanics, strategy, or future prospects on display. Why was she there? Ben is hot. How many crop top jerseys, terrible towel mini-skirts and black and gold thongs are sold to female fans every year that admit that its the physical attractiveness of players and not necessarily the football that drives their willingness to shell out dough for paraphenalia? I have no idea what percentage of women follow football for the sport or for the derrieres in tight pants, but it definitely happens and mechandise marketers know it too. Do football players care if they are regarded as sex symbols? T.O. doesn’t, but maybe Polamalu would. Do they care if someone else profits from it? T.O. certainly does, show him the money!
Fantasy football causes people to watch games they should probably ignore.
Re: Exploitation
absolutely. I’ve written about that before too. I even specifically referenced football at one point. Sex sales. To both genders. If anything, Hooters is just being more honest about everything than most service companies would be.
You know, maybe if I watched the games that I like to ignore I might do better at fantasy football.
Re: Exploitation
Or you could spend hours upon hours on internet statistics sites and and make silly charts like these .
4 hours of st.louis vs san francisco should not be a valuable way to spend part of your weekend.
I know some women who (in college) went there to try to meet men (one time) and succeeded. I think that’s the funniest thing ever.
I have never been there but when I used to work in the offices at Station Square, I used to like to watch the girls doing promotions–like they’d stand out front and hula hoop. I’ve heard their fries are good.
I don’t want this to come off the wrong way because I’m sure people will jump on me for it, so I’m prefacing it at that. But when I felt a lot better about my body, I thought places like Hooters were less sexist than today. That’s not to say that having a bad body image means that to everyone nor in entirety to me, but I think I get kinda… jealous? envious?… the older (and plumper) I get. It has a lot to do with our society’s values of the youthful look (and youth in general). It’s very hard to be a woman in this society. Even the best of men sometimes lay that pressure on (not on purpose, mind you). Of course, “no one can make you feel inferior without your consent”, as Eleanor Roosevelt would say.
Hooters might be perceived as less sexist if there was this Cocks restaurant… but how many women would really go there? I mean, for bachelorette parties, etc., but I just can’t see me and my friends (even those very open-minded about sex and sexuality) going there for dinner on a Tuesday night just cause.
Strip clubs are not sexist, IMO.
But you make an interesting point, one that I agree with and have often stated before. At least I think you’re making the point, if I understand you correctly. It’s not really the men who are being sexist. It’s the women. The general belief you are referring to is that because men may like looking at skinny girls with big boobs they must somehow think less of the women who don’t look like that. Women claim that Hooters, Playboy, strip clubs and porn make men objectify women and that they give women a bad body image, but in reality, I know very few men who say “I won’t fuck a girl unless she has DD cups and is under 110 lbs.” We are men, we are pigs. What we mostly say is something more like “I won’t fuck a girl unless she says yes when I ask her.” I think its really silly that people (men too, but especially women, it seems) get so jealous of other people for physical traits that they want to discourage other people displaying those traits. Are you 110 lbs with DDs? No. So you don’t want anyone to be. But do you have a 175 IQ? Do you think people who do shouldn’t be allowed to be on Jeopardy?
I dunno… I’m rambling but I think (i hope) you’re following my point.
I like how upfront you are; it’s good to know you are real and honest.
At one point in my life, I’d probably be angry and irritated by your comments because your comments are exactly why there is so much female angst music and art out there :p
Both genders can be sexist, sure, against both (all?) genders. I am of the firm belief, however, that it’s male driven, that because men ogle and drool over the 110lb DD-cup woman, that other women feel they need to keep up. (Not all, but some.) It’s hurtful and a damn shame. If women just wanted to be fucked (because, as you say, men will fuck anything consenting–and some will even fuck without consent, but that’s a different issue), none of this would exist. I don’t believe women just want to be fucked; they want to be admired and appreciated. When a man is out there appreciating the 110lb DD-cup and you aren’t in that category, it breeds competition and leads to an unhealthy self-image.
There’s no resolution on this: I don’t think it will ever change, and I’m not even sure it should because to some degree, the competition is healthy and necessary. What needs to change is how men treat women (maybe not change, but what should be in place always is respect, regardless of the cup size) and how women feel about themselves, regardless of how they look. I don’t know how to make that happen on a more widespread basis. As an aside note, it will be interesting to see what the supposed increase in obesity does to change what is most admired.
This isn’t a new argument you are hearing, I’m sure.
For the record, I don’t think Hooters is sexist, I don’t have an issue with any man–including any man I’m involved with–going there, looking at porn, visiting strip clubs, etc. What I think is sexist is the attitude about it, what it breeds. If it weren’t Hooters or a nudey bar or a porno mag, it would be a painting, or a statue, or something else. What matters is that I know I’m loved for who I am and appreciated for how I look….
I, btw, was 110lbs most of my adult life and not DD, but I think I’ve got a nice rack. I will put this in caps because it counts: I WAS TREATED MUCH DIFFERENTLY BY MEN THEN THAN I AM NOW. Perhaps age comes into play, too. Perhaps they smell my self-esteem, which was in some ways heartier then and in some ways heartier now but has dwindled some about my appearance? Regardless, what matters to me are the people who love me all the same because they love and appreciate me, not my hip to waist to boob ratio. My wish is for all women to have that, and to some degree, I think that needs to start with how men act.
*off my soapbox* 🙂
don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying men are innocent. It’s my general opinion that people in tend to suck except when providing specific examples to the contrary. Also, I tend to exaggerate in the name of humor quite often here. For instance, men don’t just want women for what’s between their legs. That’s an exaggeration. Sometimes they need someone to cook dinner too. 😉
Anyway, yes, I acknowledge that you were probably treated differently being skinny with a nice rack than you are being heavier (with a nice rack… I’m a boy… I notice). And well you should be. People celebrate that which is “above average.” They do that with all things. Beauty is just one of them. Say you were morbidly obese. Does that make you any less lovable? I’d say no. Say you were mentally retarded. Are you less lovable? I say no again. What about if you throw like a girl? No. But saying that the 110 lb. DD girl can’t make a living off her “gifts” or that she shouldn’t be admired them is akin to saying that Carl Sagan or Ben Rothlisberger shouldn’t be admired for their gifts. I think Carmen Electra is one of the hottest women on the planet. They haven’t even invented names for all of the deviant things I’d like to do in the bedroom with her. But does that mean that a woman needs to look like Carmen to feel good about herself (or for me to love her). I say no. She may feel different, but there’s nothing I can really do about that. I mean, I can be reassuring and such, but at the end of the day, its a personal self-esteem issue that I just can’t really control.
That’s what I meant about women being sexist. For as shallow as we pretend men are and enlightened as we pretend women are (stereotypically), men don’t (stereotypically) get jealous of such things. Its women who (stereotypically) do. And for the most part that jealousy is centered around the visual. As I said before, at the end of the day its not just visuals (or cooking as I joked) that make up a person. I love Steph for a countless variety of reasons, and if I said how she looks wasn’t part of that, I’d be lying. But just because I might look at Carmen Electra, a Playboy Playmate, a Hooters girl or you and think “damn, she’s hot!” that doesn’t actually effect Steph’s (or any other women’s) hotness rating in the slightest. Any more than it makes Steph any stupider, less creative, or less atheletic that I admire a great writer, or actor or football player. The competition only exists in her mind.
(By the way, Steph, I’m only using you as an example because you happen to be my SO and I am speaking. I don’t mean to call you out any more specifically than any other (stereotypical) woman)
Curiously, I don’t think it plays out as much in the reverse gender situation. I know Steph thinks Johnny Depp is hot, and despite how I pretend to feel, it doesn’t really bother me. I may think she’s delusional, but I’m not “jealous” of him. And I wouldn’t be jealous or threatened by her eating at “Cocks” either.
(responding to above): I’m actually less offended by Hooters etc. now than I was in my early 20’s, say. I think I’ve gotten desensitized throughout the years.
(not in response to above, general comment): But I still just can’t accept (much less be willing to go to and finance) places where men are served by women in various stages of undress. It still strikes me as demeaning to women, and honestly, I hope I never change my mind about that. Sure, men may be being exploited for money, but to me, that’s far better than exploiting your own body and dignity.
Note: I know I can’t change your mind, as we’ve had this conversation before. Honestly, I’m not even trying, but this is my blog, so I feel its necessary to respond to everything so that I am really getting all of my points across to the audience.
See, that’s the attitude that I find offensive. Who are you to tell the Hooters waitress that her job is demeaning. She’s in the service industry mixed with the entertainment industry. Is being a stripper demeaning? You have friends who are strippers. No one holds a gun to their heads. Is it more demeaning as a male stripper? What about being a professional wrestler. I get into the ring and beat on other people and let them beat on me for the entertainment of others.
Taking it a step further is it demeaning to be a garbage man? Or to be the guy who cleans out outhouses? What about to be a cognitive psychologist?
See to me, comments like what you’re saying essentially boil down to “this is demeaning because I don’t want to do it, as it is beneath me.” But that’s a personal feeling. I don’t want to be a software engineer. I’ve tried it. I hate it. It makes me feel worthless and shitty. But I can’t say that has a demeaning career. Your feelings are altruistic, sure, but at the end of the day you are making a value judgement about someone’s career based on your own feelings of what “dignity” are, and to me that seems unfair. It’s akin to saying that “I hope I am never ok with abortion because its a crime against god and those women are ruining their lives.” I think being pro-life for yourself is fine. Hoisting it on someone else is wrong. The same is true about being conservative.
My own personal opinion os that sexuality is special, and should be shared with only those you choose to share it with. When you are paid to strip or whatever, then you no longer are in control of that, and you end up “sharing” it with whomever happens to wander into the building. It is this loss of control over such an intimate part of our being that I find potentially harmful over some period of time (and there’s literature to this effect), especially for people who tend to have less control in general in their lives. I know other people have other beliefs, and that’s fine. I’m simply sharing mine here.
several points here:
1) Well, most strippers will argue with your claim that they aren’t in control. They’d tell you that they are choosing to be up on stage and that they feel more in control when they’re doing it than any other time. I’m not saying you aren’t right (or wrong). I’m just saying that the flaw is you are applying your value system to someone else. That’s why I likened it to the abortion issue.
2) Strippers were sort of a divergence from the prime issue, which was Hooters, which I would argue is a far cry from stripping. That’s why I was saying I think its unfair of you to judge it without ever having been there.
3) As for sexuality being private, I find that interesting because you don’t seem to really feel that way about everything else. Let’s grant for a moment that Hooters and strip joints are sexual (a concession I’m not willing to make overall, but will for the sake of argument). How come that’s the single thing that needs to be protected or not shared or whatever. An individual making the choice to not share any specific aspect of themselves with the public (I don’t like wrestling fans to know details about my private life for instance) I grant, but why is sexuality the specific thing that you think should be private. Why is a theme restuarant that features the wreckage of the plane Buddy Holly died in or even just BB King’s first guitar more appropriate than one that features girls in tight shirts?
For the record, I do respect your opinions… this is more my attempt to understand them.
Personally, Hooters and strip clubs never bothered me.
For Hooters… I’ve been to several (Pittsburgh/Monroeville/Myrtle Beach/NYC), and I don’t see the girls as being dressed all that whorish. The only problem I have with Hooters is the guys who claim they don’t go to see the chicks, but they go for the “great food”. Every time I’ve eaten at Hooters, their food as been either gross or barely acceptable. So, if you’re going to see girls dressed with less clothing than Olive Garden waitresses, at least admit to that being the reason. lol
As for strip clubs… I’ve been to one. I personally didn’t enjoy it, as the girls were UGLY and I’m not into girls anyways. I think strip clubs are more degrading for the men than the women. The women are making a living. The men look like pathetic bastards who can’t get any pussy on their own. I don’t think I could ever get naked in front of a bunch of strangers, but I don’t presume to place my morals on anyone else. The only real problem I have with strip clubs/strippers is when men & women use that for their bachelor/bachelorette parties as rites or traditions.
to be totally fair, some of the food at Hooters I do like and some of the girls I think are not all that hot. But in general, I kind of agree with you. I think admitting your going to a restaurant because the waitresses are hot is fine.
Why are you against bachelor/bachelorette parties?
Bachelor/ette Parties
Along with all sorts of bad wedding ‘traditions’ including the electric slide, the bouquet toss and introducing the wedding party with a voice reminiscent of a NBA basketball announcer, the assumption that having a stripper perform or taking the groom to a strip club is somehow a required rite of passage is incredibly misconceived. It probably ranks last on my list of things to do on my or any of my friends last night before entering the glorious institution of marriage.
Especially if, in these modern times, you’ve already spent the 2-4 years together as a couple, the pageant of marriage is hardly a time to go back to before you were already actually committed to one person. If you’re comfortable doing that the night before you’re married, why ever stop? Heck, at that point you might as well get married in the strip club because its entirely possible you hav’nt let go of the need for instant satisfaction at the drop of a twenty dollar bill. “And do you Bill, take Jane to be your lawfully wedded wife …. – Hold on I have to pay for my next lap dance.”
Re: Bachelor/ette Parties
honestly, I don’t know that you “stop.” Because you don’t go to the strip club with just your single friends. Your married ones are there too. Its more ceremonial than anything, I think. Typically its not really the night before these days either. It ends up being a week or two before.
And also, speaking of tradition, I KNOW YOU AIN’T HATIN’ ON THE ELECTRIC SLIDE!!!!
I’m not against them at those parties, I’m against them being the rite of passage or “tradition”. If you really just love strippers and you think that you need to go to see naked women/men the night before your wedding, that’s your business. I don’t agree with it when the people involved either A. are simply going just because they “have to” or B. are going because they are afraid of the committment in the impending marriage.
Does that make sense?
I don’t know that I feel that any of those things HAVE to hapen. But I do like the concept of tradition with a lot of things. I wonder, do you feel the same way about other marriage traditions? White dress, tossing the bouquet? Cutting the cake? Crazy all night honeymoon sex? What about other traditions that have nothing to do with your wedding… you know, like drinking on the night of your 21st birthday. Or even something as simple as saying “Bless You” when someone sneezes.
See I don’t agree with doing any of those things because you HAVE too. Actually wedding dresses were traditionally blue (meaning purity) or red (in Chinese cultures). I wouldn’t do something JUST because it’s tradition. I say “Bless you” when someone sneezes, but I also pray for people every night. For my birthday, I did go drink, but not because I turned 21, simply because I could drink legally. I’ve drank alcohol before my 21st birthday ;-).
Red White and Blue
I was under the impression the white dress signified a virgin bride … I also heard that Queen Victorian brought it back in style.
Traditions are fine thing if you know and support their continuing meaning. And something is wrong if you gratuitously flaunt the hypocrisy or ignorance of sensible traditions. Is white an appropriate color for your dress at your third wedding?
Re: Red White and Blue
A white dress only signified a virgin bride starting with Queen Victoria in the 1840s. As such, it was made popular because white wedding dresses were considered a sign of weath, but this later turned into a sign of purity. Blue is actually the color of purity and as I said, the Chinese have consistently worn red wedding dresses.
In my opinion, I think white is a fine color for any wedding dress, whether it is your first or tenth, simply because white dresses no longer signify purity (some polls suggest that over 50% of women are not virgins on their wedding day, though most brides will wear white).
IMO, just because something is tradition doesn’t make it absolute.
Re: Red White and Blue
SINNER!!! HARLOT!!! FORNICATOR!!!
ummm, sorry about that…
Re: Red White and Blue
Yeah but I love every minute of it! 😉 lol
And I’m sure you do too!
Re: Red White and Blue
I’m pure and innocent. I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Re: Red White and Blue
Righttt…and maybe I’ll win a million $$. 🙂