Day 405 of 365 More.
Well, I’m back.
I had a big huge diatribe set for today, but I’m exhausted and just don’t have it in me right now. I’ll do my best, but I’m beat.
Obviously, I did get them to unlock my account last night. It took quite a while, and honestly Flickr was extremely unhelpful. They wouldn’t tell me what the offensive pictures were. And in fact at one point told me that I would be remaining flagged since I was "unwilling to self-moderate" even though I explicitly said several times "I’m quite willing to cooperate if someone can tell me which pictures, or at least which sorts of things I am doing that are offensive." That’s about the most I ever swallow my pride, they should be proud. Honestly, I wouldn’t have even been that reasonable if this community weren’t as important to me as it is.
Anyway, they were no help at all, continuously telling me that I clearly had pictures that required "moderation" in my stream and I needed to be more restrictive. Before this entire mess started, I had marked any explicit nudes in my stream as I felt they were not work safe. After I was first marked blocked I marked all the non-explicit nudes which I think are fine, but I could see how some people might consider them questionable. That was still not good enough. Then, I decided to bite the bullet and marked all the lingerie shots (which are no more offensive than the covers of Maxim or Cosmo found in any supermarket). Still no good. So then I started going through and marking anything that could even be remotely offensive. I had to do that an additional four times (each time being told that I was being difficult, and once in fact being told NOT to write back any more unless I was willing to clean up my stream).
If you couldn’t tell, I was livid last night. I honestly was. I honestly wanted to quit the whole thing. Flickr, 365. I really didn’t even want to be an artist anymore. Today, I’ve decided I’m sticking around, but I’ve taken a huge step back. I literally have no motivation whatsoever. That’s why this is the picture you’re getting. I know I’ll be better sooner or later. And when I am, I’d regret having quit. But until then. Stink.
Anyway, if you have a chance, I’d love if you’d all do me a favor. Go through this set of pics that I ended up having to censor and tell me which ones you think actually might be offensive to someone. As far as I am concerned there is not a single image in that set that isn’t perfectly acceptable on daytime network television in the US, and I don’t know why any of them would be unacceptable here. Yet, given that everything in the other two sets I linked to was already flagged and yet I still supposedly had "several pictures that need to be restricted." So if everyone could please tell me which pics in there they think are clearly appropriate and which ones might be questionable I’d love that.
That’s it. I have nothing clever to say. Sorry to anyone who expects that sort of thing from me on every post. I hope that you’re just happy I haven’t quit entirely.
Well, I’m happy. And I’m sad that you had to go through all of that crap. The whole thing put me in an ass kicking mood. I hope you get your muse back soon.
What I don’t understand is why they are being evasive when you ask them which specific photos are problematic, while you are at the same time telling them you are willing to cooperate? OMG!!
So why wouldn’t they have some way, some little software program set up, to show you the ones that have been used to evaluate you as needing to be flagged by the "powers that be"? Show you specifically — these photos should be flagged by you or we will flag your whole account.
This is necessary in my view, because different people have different levels of comfort and taste in what is acceptable for unrestricted viewing. It’s not possible to perfectly predict what every other person out there might find objectionable, so it would be very helpful to everyone, including Flickr staff, if people were informed what exactly has given offense.
Some people would find this photo extremely distasteful and offensive — one of my commentators finds ME completely distasteful and offensive — and yet it has always been public and flagged as "safe":
Well, I’m glad you didn’t quit. Obviously you’ve made a huge impact on a decent sized group of Flickr users. Losing your art, wit, and imagination would have made this a duller, grayer place.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrismaverick/668305770/in/set-7215...
(because of the blood/gore not to mention suicide attempt)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrismaverick/475646828/in/set-7215...
(because it’s a depiction of a couple that look like they are in the middle of foreplay)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrismaverick/23272538/in/set-72157...
(because of the BDSM/sex aspect of it…yeah, light, but still)
Some of the others that have women in provocative poses might be objectionable, particularly to parents of minors, but there were too many of those to indicate individually. 😉 Really though, most of those were fine for public consumption, IMO.
@lrayholly: We’ll see. Hopefully I’ll be ok sooner or later. Probably. *sigh*
@phlewght: i was actually thinking about it earlier. All that needs to be done is printing the number of offensive flags on the photo for the person to see. I don’t even need to know who flagged me. I really don’t care. A simple "this photo has been flagged offensive 5 times you might want to consider moderating it" would have been more than sufficient in this and I imagine any other case where the person was trying to do the right thing. And the attitude of the flickr staff member (who to be fair I am sure was just following instructions which is why I’ve never posted his name) was not only offensive but downright counterproductive for the situation. Dave, who had nothing to do with it, was 100x more helpful in dealing with everything. Even if our hypothesis turned out to be wrong.
@Travelinjim: Thank you, I appreciate it. Really I do. That said, you have to understand where I was coming from last night. You’ve completed this project. You are entirely aware of how much work it is. I really put a lot of work into it, and not to be egotistical, but I feel I put in more than almost anyone else. The reason I do it is because I want to be an artist. Maybe I am, but I don’t believe it yet. I want to be, and I work damn hard at it. And the reason I do it is because it is important to me, for my own selfish reasons to have people see what I have done. To have them appreciate me. Art is about ego. It is about saying to the world, look what I have done. Appreciate me. If I am blocked then i can’t show my work to new people. My audience does not grow. I don’t need a photostorage site. I have my own. I use flickr because it can grow my audience. As much as I am proud of what I have accomplished here, and I truly am, 365 is one of the proudest things I’ve ever done in my life, but as much as I am proud, it is simply too much work for me to do if it doesn’t serve the one goal of making me feel like an artist. I don’t get paid. All I have to show for my investment here is the appreciation of others. And maybe its shallow, but I need that.
@SydB42: I’ll grant the first one. I disagree, but fine. I’ll grant it, and if they’d said "this is too gory, please block it" I would have said fine.
The second, I understand, but vehemently deny. There are far far far more provacative images around flickr and on every single episode of Days of Our Lives or General Hospital.
The third is playful and silly. And furthermore has been posted to flickr for over 2 years. If there’s a problem with clothed spanking with no bondage or really anything fetisht, all of a sudden, then I’m not sure I want to be here. The same goes for all of the model poses. They’re certainly no worse than anything else you see here, or on the cover of Cosmo. In fact, I might egotistically even say that mine are better than most.
When you set your self to safe search it takes you to pictures of kittens. I’m a photographer and an artist. If this is to be reduced to a simple showcase of kittens and nothing even remotely provocative (I mean artistically, not necessarily sexually, but not precluding that either), then I don’t think the purpose of the site is being accomplished.
I should clarify that *none* of the shots offended *me*. I was trying to view them from a more prudish eye than what I have, and then I zeroed in on what more than just the most prudish of prudes might have problems with.
There’s a reason my account is set to no filtering on my viewing. I like to see it all, and very little offends me. 🙂 I also am not always aware of what might offend others because of this, so the three that I picked out above were just my best guesses.
@SydB42: oh, I understood. I didn’t think you were offended. I was merely responding to the specific ones you mentioned for the record. Thanks.
Well, I’m offended that you didn’t use your free time while unemployed to build a working teleportation system! Then we all could have made it to Jammy Jam this year and gotten in on foxy dogpiles.
I’m glad you got it all worked out. Pictures of the pretty ladies aside, I enjoy reading your own unique (dare I say, maverick) view on things.
Personally, it takes a lot for me to get offended. The human body, IMO, is a beautiful thing, with or without clothes, and I have been painting them for a looong time now. For some people it really doesn’t take much for them to get offended, it could be as simple as a man’s nipple that sets them off or implied anything to with sexualtiy/sensuality.
Skin is bad, man. People are supposed to be ashamed of their bodies, didn’t you get that memo?
I don’t see anything offensive in your photography Mav. Sure, there are those people out there on flickr that simply don’t want to see any nudes in their searches, so my advice, don’t look. Anyway, I hope that things get resolved in a way that they probably won’t…a way that is convenient for the user, the customer, the ones that are paying for this service–YOU. But, alas, I’m glad you’re not letting it get you completely out of whack and leave flickr altogether…that’d make me sad 🙁
Good lucK!
We all have to remember that we have some varying degree of trouble seeing past the ends of our own noses — i.e. what is or is not offensive to me, and I just don’t understand why anyone else would be offended.
That’s why I like this new way of posting/flagging. You can leave a lot of "objectionable" or "controversial" things public, but flag them as moderate or restricted. People who don’t want to be surprised or shocked by something, but are still intrigued by a given person’s artful photography (and/or post-production) will keep their Safe Search filters on ‘safe’ or ‘moderate’, and then decide whether they want to click through the white noise.
It’s common courtesy, and even though Mav disagrees with a lot of what could be seen as controversial, he is willing to show that common courtesy IF ONLY Flickr WOULD BE SPECIFIC instead of too damned general(ly annoying).
Mav’s stuff can be seen by most everyone — well, except those few countries with mandated ‘safe’ — and probably 95% of people looking at his stuff have the Safe Search turned off.
We may wish that our Puritanical roots were not still active in the USA — bikini bathing suits are far more acceptable than underwear which is no more revealing — but they still are. Trying to fight that fight while shoving something controversial in your opponent’s face is counterproductive at best.
Now yes — perhaps people who go trolling in unknown waters should not complain about what they find, but you just might change somebody’s mind about what is or is not objectionable if you handle it right, and leave it their choice to click further or not to click.
Mav is right — there are so many similar images on the soaps, in mainline magazines, etc. It’s ridiculous that some of his shots of models in not-very-revealing underwear and not-very-sexual poses might need a ‘moderate’ flag. But TV shows have ratings, to help parents decide what to let kids see.
I did go through the shots quickly last night, Mav. I’ll get back to you later when I can go through them more slowly. Many of them should be no problem flagged as ‘safe’, IMHO.
I gotta tell ya, a few days ago my wife was at work looking through pictures and came to your stream. She clicked a few and then a nude popped up. Now, she’s no prude and the idea of seeing a lovely young nude lady didn’t bother her too much. But, that it came up without warning (she hadn’t been through your pictures before) at work caused her to backstroke outta there pretty quick. She told me about it later, "That Maverick guy, yeah his pictures aren’t work safe are they?". LOL
I’m glad you’ve finally satisfied the Flickr censor gods. It sucks that their communication skills were so lacking. I would imagine it must have to do with the fact that "objectionable material" is so subjective. They couldn’t tell you what was the problem because maybe they didn’t know.
@khaughwout: thanks, Kev.
@adayinthelife: I know. that’s why its so frusterating. Flickr wants us to police ourselves, but I’m so liberal about nudity and sex and such that i have to just guess. If they would give me actual rules, I’d follow them. Hell, if they told me specifically which pics to block after the fact, that would have been fine too. They create more problems the way they’re doing it than they solve.
@rmitz: yeah, I get that. But how much skin? I mean, I had blocked all the nudes and all the lingerie, and it was still not good enough.
@pi c’s: I still may. But I’m hanging in for now. We’ll see. And thanks.
@phlewght: that’s just the thing. TV shows have well defined ratings. Well, more or less. They at least have published standards of what its "supposed to mean." If flickr had that, it’d at least be the right track. Of course, TV is better, but they’re lacking too. I wrote about it in my blog a while back. Even mentioned Flickr’s rating system, before I had all these problems. I should start blogging more regularly again.
@Travelinjim: well, to be fair "people at work" isn’t my audience. But I TRY to be cautious about it nonetheless. Hence me moderating all the actual nudes. But there’s a fine line between being courteous and censoring. The reason I am so upset now, is I feel like flickr has made me go over that line.
Damm flickr.. I have never thought of any of your pictures as offensive.
I’m glad you stayed and I really hope you’ll find inspiration again soon!
Once I get my equipment in order, a website for me it will go… I understand censoring yourself, but sheesh, seriously, it gets a bit ridiculous after awhile… I agree with you 100%… Flickr is not a hundred percent on the ball about these things… sad really.
@Cirkusprinsesse: I’m glad you think so. And I hope I do too.
@adayinthelife: I actually already have my own website just for now I’ve been leveraging my flickr account for photo slideshows. But I can do that myself if I want to.